Curse

Grim Lich · Mar 29, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Which is better? Using [Order of the Vampire] or [order of pain] and [dark fury]?

sph0nz · Mar 29, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Both are useful. Use [Order of the Vampire] if you don't have anybody using adrenaline skills, otherwise I'd stick with [Order of Pain] and [Dark Fury].

MagmaRed · Mar 29, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Really depends on what you are using it for. If you are using it with a team of Rangers with Splinter Weapon, then Order of Vamp would be better. But if using it with a team of Warriors and/or Paragons with Save Yourselves! then Pain and Fury would be better. However, it also depends on the elite you need/want to use. If you want to use an elite like Offering of Blood, Spoil Victor, etc., then you wouldn't be able to use Vamp.

As long as what you are using fits the team's build and your enemies, it doesn't matter.

ac1inferno · Mar 29, 2009, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Your choice whether you like [[Order of the vampire] and [[blood ritual], or [[blood is power] and [[order of pain]. Both can be interchangeable with not one better than the other. It all boils down to personal preference.

Eragon Zarroc · Mar 29, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

go OoP and DF and take something else for ur elite. the health gained from life steal isnt reallt needed in pve. uber adren gain though is fun =D

FoxBat · Mar 29, 2009, 04:37 AM // 04:37

The main advantage of OoV is it's far less energy-intensive than the other mentioned skills (also less time consuming), so the builds you can use with it look very different. For example strength and honor smiters can make pretty good use of the skill.

For PvE necros soul reaping abuse really seems to encourage order of pain even if you aren't running dark fury... plenty of stuff you can do with the free elite.

Xenomortis · Mar 29, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

If you're party is wanting to spam adren skills, you need to take OoP and DF. This also frees up an elite, which you could take in the form of BiP or something. Energy shouldn't be a problem, particularly if your build is geared towards spamming those two skills.
Otherwise, you could go with OotV, but the advantage is minimal.

TheodenKing · Mar 29, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Really depends on what you are using it for. If you are using it with a team of Rangers with Splinter Weapon, then Order of Vamp would be better. But if using it with a team of Warriors and/or Paragons with Save Yourselves! then Pain and Fury would be better. However, it also depends on the elite you need/want to use. If you want to use an elite like Offering of Blood, Spoil Victor, etc., then you wouldn't be able to use Vamp.

As long as what you are using fits the team's build and your enemies, it doesn't matter.

I would also add that life-stealing is armor-ignoring.

Moloch Vein · Mar 29, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

The damage from OoP is also armor-ignoring, but yes, the OoV extra comes as a separate packet that is never mitigated.

OoP + DF is clearly superior for most occasions. However, it is very taxing to keep both enchantments running in battle. An ER elementalist would do a better job with it, but it's a little hard to find good utility for that character - possibly Water Magic would work (DF, Mael, Blurred.)

Grim Lich · Mar 29, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Thanks for the help guys. For the record, I was using it with P/ heroes, so Dark Fury + Order of Pain appears to be the best.

Also, just in case, I did a damage test to be sure.

Used the regular W/P Cruel spear.

Without an order took ~15 secs (this is all from memory)

With [OoP] [Dark fury] ~13 secs

With [OoV] 10 secs (that one I'm sure of)

I did wait for my adreniline (sp?) skills to wear off, so it is a moderately unbaised attempt.

I assumes this means that OoP does NOT do armor ignoring damage? Otherwise the times should have been closer (assuming + or - 1 sec difference because of crits and what not.)

snaek · Mar 29, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

(kind of offtopic but) personally i think [order of the vampire] should be able to stack with [dark fury], while [order of pain] should not be able to, because of the elite status.

i don't find the 5 energy and lifesteal worth the elite status.

if energy is a problem, run [masochism]

draxynnic · Mar 30, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The damage from OoP is also armor-ignoring, but yes, the OoV extra comes as a separate packet that is never mitigated.

Which makes it particularly good for Cyndr, the Great Destroyer, and other enemies that have an 'invulnerable' mode, since they aren't invulnerable to lifesteal.

Moloch Vein · Mar 30, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Thanks for the help guys. For the record, I was using it with P/ heroes, so Dark Fury + Order of Pain appears to be the best.

Also, just in case, I did a damage test to be sure.

Used the regular W/P Cruel spear.

Without an order took ~15 secs (this is all from memory)

With [OoP] [Dark fury] ~13 secs

With [OoV] 10 secs (that one I'm sure of)

I did wait for my adreniline (sp?) skills to wear off, so it is a moderately unbaised attempt.

I assumes this means that OoP does NOT do armor ignoring damage? Otherwise the times should have been closer (assuming + or - 1 sec difference because of crits and what not.)

Sounds like your test is flawed in some way. In fact time with OoP + DF should be lower than OoV, when running adrenaline skills.

Xenomortis · Mar 30, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Was your hero maintaining OoP properly? Order of Pain alone should do more damage or at least the same as OotV.
OoP is armour ignoring, OotV is lifesteal.
OoP costs 10e, OotV costs 5e.
OoP has no recharge, OotV has a 5 second recharge - it cannot be maintained constantly.

MasterSasori · Mar 30, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

OoP and DF cuz ["save yourselves"] and [earth shaker] are awesome.

Shadowmere · Apr 16, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

(kind of offtopic but) personally i think [order of the vampire] should be able to stack with [dark fury], while [order of pain] should not be able to, because of the elite status.

i don't find the 5 energy and lifesteal worth the elite status.

if energy is a problem, run [masochism]

I think the "does not stack with other necro enchats" clause in OoV is there to stop it from stacking with OoP. I agree with you though, it should be switched so that the elite can be stacked and the non-elite can't be.

as it stands about the only edge OoV has over OoP is it's lower energy cost. OoV can't be maintained constantly and can't have other useful orders (dark fury) be used with it. Sure OoV is lifesteal but really the only way OoV lifesteal is better than OoP armor ignoring damage is that it heals whoever is attacking...but that's pretty useless if that's the main thing the elite has going for it...it's like having 5 seconds of [vigorous spirit] for the whole team